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Sons of Liberty — 13 Comments

  1. That sounds like a really good idea. I’m not much for dealing with kids any more. LOL Most of the time it’s a struggle to tolerate my grand kids these days. As far as educating them on different subjects I’m nowhere near your guy. You did mention a website though. I can build and run a platform to do just about anything you want. I wouldn’t use wordpress though. It’s great for what it does but going outside the pre-built plugins is a pain.

    • Cool, Chris, you are the webmaster. I wasn’t envisioning us starting our own troop and working with kids ourselves, although it would be fun to consult with one if a local group got started. I’m an ideas guy, let a younger man take them on their hikes, 😉

      Sorry for my absence; but I was determined to finish that while I was still enthusiastic for the idea. It is time for my nap, but I will catch up this evening, 🙂 ◄Dave►

  2. Hey Brotha! “Great minds run together”! I love the idea…we are coming up on the 1 year anniversary of a small business networking group I founded called First Principles. There are 10 of us and growing. Our greatest thrill so far was to reject a Tax Atty on the grounds he voted TWICE for Obama! hehehe!! My preference would be for us to take our country back and roll back all this insanity, because the “tradition” of Scouting is what I HATE to give up. Also…and I may be having a deja vu Sr moment, but didn’t we have a slightly different take on the concept of Altruism?

  3. One of the first things to find out is how many parents want an alternative to the Boy Scouts. How will it be funded, and setting up the legal aspects of a private club.

    Even though the boy scouts won the battle as to the gays, they lost the battle on funding. The united way for example donated some $ 80/90 thousand a year, which was lost. Other donators also pulled their donations.
    Lands they were allowed to Camp on were pulled. Dave, being a Californian will know this. This has happened all across the country. So to keep the Boy Scouts in service it would seem under the circumstances they would have to let the gays in.

    In the new organization, I would say it boils down to two things, who will fund it, (there probably won’t be enough private donations) and will they be for keeping the gays out. And than there is setting up the legal aspects of it.
    Also the only way of being allowed using Govt. land for camping ETC. would have to go through the courts so state and local authorities could not kick the organization out.
    You are talking mucho mucho dollars.

  4. Also Dave, My sons an attorney, and he would be the first to tell you You had better have Insurance before you sign the first one up. That will also be a great expense.
    If your group ( or whatever) is to be just a “little back yard get together” the Home owner policy would be sufficient, but if it’s nation wide or even less, you better be ready.

  5. All things I was thinking about the past couple days Oscar. PLUS if the group were to be exclusionary of any group as illustrated you need grounds for the exclusion. The challenges will come the minute it seems like it’s catching on.

  6. It seems I have been misunderstood. I was not suggesting a whole new official organization and massive infrastructure, to replace the Boy Scouts; quite the opposite. Neither was I suggesting anything that required much in the way of resources, other than a lot of volunteer time by Patriots interested in promoting our Founder’s vision, of maximum individual Liberty, with absolute minimum Federal government interference in the personal lives of American citizens.

    Presently, most of our youth are never even exposed to such ideas; if for no other reason than that their parents and teachers weren’t either. There is a very good reason most TEA Party folk are over 50. Our worldview is completely alien to most younger folk, who have done no independent study of our history and founding principles.

    From deliberately programed ignorance, they are easily entrapped in the Incumbrepublocrats’ Left/Right culture war, where either side is fighting for the freedom to live their lives their own way, out of fear that the other side’s agenda represents oppressive tyranny. It never even occurs to them that the real struggle of the ages, which our Founders brilliantly addressed, is not the horizontal Left/Right battle between opposing camps of would be tyrants.

    It is instead the vertical Up/Down battle for Liberty, between the sovereignty of free individuals, and oppressive tyranny of any sort, including Left or Right altruistic collectives’ busybodies. It is my opinion that if all Americans understood this, and possessed the critical thinking skills to evaluate the situation for themselves, the size and scope of our Federal government could be returned to near Constitutional limits within a couple of election cycles.

    It is also my opinion that we Patriots in the TEA Party and Liberty Movement, waste far too much time lamenting the way things have deteriorated, sharing clever pictures, arguing over trite minutia, and/or desperately seeking an effective electable leader, whom social and fiscal conservatives, libertarians, and independents could somehow all agree to get behind. We kid ourselves that this would solve everything, when only a modicum of serious reflection. reveals to the least intuitive that it wouldn’t.

    Lamentably, we do not spend enough time doing positive things that could actually change the disastrous course we are on as a nation, for the sake of our posterity. At the rate our history is being rewritten, and our children are being deliberately dumbed down, our posterity will never even know what might have been, or even how shamelessly we screwed them with unconscionable debt, for our own generation’s gratification in the guise of altruism.

    My suggestion was that we take the opportunity provided by the current dissatisfaction with the BSA, to design a new youth group that offered much of what traditional Scouting does, with the central focus on inculcating our nation’s founding principles, supporting history, free-market economics, and critical thinking skills, which are no longer taught in government schools.

    My vision, which is certainly open to modification, was to create a social networking type website for the purpose, which we would use to design and share our recommendations for the nature of a local club. We would fill it with interesting and/or enjoyable activities that would foster awareness of what America was meant to be, and why those venerable ideas are superior to the present socialist paradigm.

    We would offer encouragement and an entirely voluntary Q&A type support forum. There could be a ‘group’ set up for each local club. Beyond that dues-free service, I envisioned no binding relationship, legal, contractual, or otherwise, between our informal information center and the individual local clubs.

    Anyone could start one, without permission from us or anyone else. They would establish for themselves the legal structure (or not) of their local organization, how it is financed, and their own criteria for membership. Actually, they wouldn’t even have to call themselves the Sons &/or Daughters of Liberty.

    Any youth organization, such as a church group or even a Boy Scout troop, which found value in our ‘Liberty Lessons’ program, could adapt it to theirs. The important thing would be their autonomy to operate as they see fit, without one-size-fits-all rules, regulations, and mandates emanating from some national body.

    With all due respect for your son, Oscar (for having the good sense to choose you for a father), by the time this endeavor could get to the point of rationally deciding it needed lawyers and insurance, I would be long gone. I’m interested in educating and empowering worthy individuals, for the sake of posterity, not creating another target of opportunity for the enablers of the victim class.

    I have been a voluntary free trader and reasonably successful entrepreneur for most of my life, doing business on a handshake, without ever needing to hire a lawyer, or purchasing a dimes worth of insurance not mandated by the government or a lender. I am certainly not interested in starting now. If that is a deal killer, so be it. I’ll crawl back in my cave and leave posterity to fend for itself. ◄Dave►

    • No one was down playing your “Implying” a new organization to replace the BSA. Quite the opposite. I thought it was a grand idea. I was stating problems that could be encountered. I apologize for that.

      A few Quotes:
      “The idea of starting a new type of youth organization, as an ALTOURNATIVE to the Boy Scouts, niggled at me all day. The more I think about it, the more attractive the potential seems, for a positive project and worthwhile endeavor for the Patriot community“.
      Good Idea. But If I misread you I apologize

      “There could be sectarian groups, secular groups, gay tolerant groups, even all gay groups; so who could legitimately object? Their affinity groupings would not matter to us, if the result would be to produce aware, well-informed, self-sufficient, competent, individual young men“.

      Without the different groups, wasn’t that one of the reasons for the BSA are letting the Gays In?

      “Without a formal organization, and no income to account for, it would be immune to lawyers and bureaucrats alike.

      Without and organization you have none of the above. And being a country full of laws, one had better watch their backs.

      If there is any interest in such a project, let’s kick it around and make a plan to get it started. Thoughts? ?Dave?

      You wanted thoughts, you got them.

      “have been a voluntary free trader and reasonably successful entrepreneur for most of my life, doing business on a handshake, without ever needing to hire a lawyer, or purchasing a dimes worth of insurance not mandated by the government or a lender. I am certainly not interested in starting now. If that is a deal killer, so be it. I’ll crawl back in my cave and leave posterity to fend for itself”

      Out side of my professional job I’ve been doing business for over a half century. I’ve found that a hand shake on a business deal with a good friend is sufficient. Other than that it’s not. I seldom pay for the advise of an attorney as I know where a good one is. And I’ve found that Insurance is cheap as they have covered many of my loses.

      My advise to you. If you feel strongly about your project than get some professional advise before stating.

      • Oscar, my reply wasn’t meant to chastise you or express offense at your input, which I always value. I was just clarifying my position. I admit my personal prejudice against lawyers, whom I regard at best as deal killers. The few good ones function only to advise a client on all the reasons not to do something one wishes to do, to protect them from the predations of their less honorable brethren. I think it was Shakespeare, who suggested that if we never accepted one, we would have never needed two.

        Similarly, I regard insurance as betting against oneself. One is betting that he will screw up, or die prematurely; while the insurance company, with superior statistics and actuarial tables at hand, are betting he won’t. More problematically, the suggestion that one needs insurance for protection from lawsuits, becomes self-fulfilling prophesy.

        The very existence of an insurance policy, provides the deep pockets necessary to attract an ambulance chaser to convince someone, who otherwise wouldn’t, to sue. Then, nobody feels the least bit guilty, for suing someone over something that wasn’t his fault, because the insurance company is the one required to pay, which drives everyones rates up.

        Worst of all, the insurance company usually settles out of court, refusing to defend against a BS lawsuit, because it is cheaper than the cost of litigation. The whole damn tort system is absolutely nuts, and out of control. We have a cripple lawyer in these parts, making an absolute fortune running around filing nuisance lawsuits, against any small business without adequate access for his wheelchair.

        Not to worry, this lame idea won’t go any farther than any of the others I have offered, to try to get people focused on doing something positive for Liberty. Most prefer instead to whine and complain about the losing culture war side issue. I am already bored with it… ◄Dave►

        • I have never considered any of your ideas lame and certainly not this one. And if you decide to go farther with with it I will be all the help I can, with out criticism

    • Exactly Dave. I don’t think anyone is trying to detract from the idea. It’s a fantastic idea. I do know that in your experience you realize that every undertaking requires consideration of every angle. Both good and bad. You must always consider vulnerabilities in any undertaking in order to secure success particularly when it’s assured you will get push back from those who would not share the views of the goal. Those people have a very long history of using legal systems to stifle opposing views. It simply needs to be considered. Particularly if what your doing is directed toward young people. Evil minds can concoct all sorts of evil claims.

      • Understood, Chris. I have become so adept at bobbing and weaving to avoid all contact with the bastards, that I sometimes forget that I don’t actually live in a lawyer free zone. After all, most politicians begin their careers as lawyers. In a perfect world, they wouldn’t be allowed to wear neckties, which they use to keep the foreskin off their face.

        That was one of the things I loved about living and doing business in Hawaii. They stuck out like a sore thumb, and I could spot one coming from a couple hundred yards. Because of the weather, even the bankers wore aloha shirts to work. Thus, if someone was wearing a tie, they were immediately suspect, as either a lawyer, politician, or salesman from the mainland. 🙂

        Now that I am retired, debt free, and responsible for nobody but myself, I no longer need to do commerce to eat. By simply ignoring the existence of the so-called ‘authorities,’ the measure of personal freedom I already enjoy is remarkable. It often occurs to me that all that would be required, for me to achieve near total freedom, is to give up my patriotic concern for this once free nation’s posterity.

        When I am honest with myself, the notion that we might save America by properly educating our kids, is a colossal joke. It is far too late for that. For one thing, a total economic collapse, sooner rather than later, is already baked into the cake. It could not be otherwise. The laws of mathematics cannot be altered or repealed. The only thing keeping us from immediate default on government obligations, is the massive counterfeiting of currency by the FED. That is merely delaying and intensifying the ultimate crash.

        Another, is the demographic ramifications of our immigration policy, which no longer requires assimilation into our culture. When combined with the massive voter fraud, encouraging even illiterate non-citizens to vote in our elections, we are actively committing cultural suicide.

        Already, whites are the minority here in CA. Texas, once a bastion of conservatism, is now purple and trending blue. Immigrants are breeding future Democrats like flies; conservatives and libertarians aren’t even replacing themselves. The chances of reversing this trend are nil.

        Yet, with these and other (foreign policy?) existential crises staring us in the face, the sheeple are squabbling over abortion, gay marriage, and free healthcare. It is absurd; but upon reflection, I have to admit that my pet issues of Liberty and individual sovereignty, aren’t really any more compelling.

        Soon enough, as the world descends into the new ‘Dark Ages II’ we will all likely be free-range individuals, more concerned with scratching up a meal, than who is in charge, who is sleeping with whom, or whether every possible egg is diligently hatched. Indeed, if we get hungry enough, increasing the population is likely to be the last thing on our minds. 🙂

        Anyway… In the meantime, the Sons & Daughters of Liberty idea is out there, free for the taking. Perhaps someone will like it enough to run with it. If so, I wish them success and might enjoy writing some of the ‘Liberty Lessons.’ I suppose an entrepreneur could make a nifty business out of it, monetizing the website and selling ‘official’ gear. It is either that and/or fundraising, dues, etc. to cover all the overhead expenses, of making a proper legal entity out of it. ◄Dave►

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